Schwalbe Releases More Details On Revolutionary Dual Chamber Procore Tire System

Schwalbe new nobby nic all mountain tire (5)Low pressure tires have more traction. This is one of the underlying reasons that mountain bikers have flocked to tubeless tires and wide rims.

Both of these technologies enables riders to let out a few PSI, rip corners, and climb better, but they come at a cost. The one mentioned by tire manufacturer Schwalbe is snake bite, but we’d like to also include the greater risk of developing a flat spot, and burping when cornering aggressively.

In order to reduce the risk of these scenarios, the company has been hard at work developing a dual chamber system they now call Procore. We’ve gone over the basics before, but essentially, the new system utilizes a inner tube (that’s not really an inner tube) to inflate the center channel of the tire. Then a second valve is inflated at a much higher volume, which presses against the tire bead. This helps prevent burping and allows the rider to dial in traction without worrying about flatting.

The entire system is expected to weigh 200g and be compatible with existing tires.  Full press release and more pictures below:

Schwalbe Procore Dual Core Chamber SystemNo more snake-bite punctures: A revolutionary dual chamber system makes it possible to ride with very low air pressures and, as a result, improve tire performance enormously. Initially, Schwalbe and the wheel manufacturer Syntace were working on such a system independently of each other. Now, the two companies have joined forces to further develop the dual chamber system.

With low air pressure, off-road tire performance improves signaificantly. The tires can adapt better to the terrain and react far more sensitively. They roll more easily over uneven ground and provide more grip and control. “But one can hardly risk riding on standard MTB tires with less than 1.5 bar (20psi), because the risk of snake bites is simply too great”, explains Markus Hachmeyer, Senior Product Manager. With the current trend towards wide wheel rims, the trail performance of the tires at low air pressure is improved and has become less “spongy”. The risk of snake bites, however, remains the same.

The solution is an innovative dual chamber system. There is an additional air chamber inside the tire. This inner chamber is filled with high air pressure and effectively prevents the tire hitting the edge of the rim. At the same time, the inner system also secures the tire on the rim and prevents the dreaded “burping”, a loss of air of the tubeless system in the case of low pressure. Depending on the situation, the air pressure in the outer chamber can now be reduced to 1 bar (14psi) without running any risk.Schwalbe ProCore Dual Chamber

“All test cyclists to date have been thrilled with the new possibilities”, reports Markus Hachmeyer and recaps the feedback:

  • With one bar (14psi), the tire grip is incredible. The contact surface is very large and the tires seldom, if ever, slide on loose ground. Even on the roughest terrain, the tires literally stick to the ground.
  • The tire is the most sensitive cushioning element on the bike. The extra cushioning and traction because of the low air pressure leads to much better control over the bike and allow distinctly higher speeds.
  • All this without the risk of snake-bite punctures. Dented rims become a thing of the past. Significantly lighter tires can be used in even the toughest conditions. What is more, the additional air chamber has excellent emergency running characteristics.

In order to exploit the advantages of the low tire pressure without risking a puncture, Schwalbe and Syntace were working on the same idea independently of each other and had also applied for patents. Now, the two companies are pooling their know-how to develop the system to market maturity. “At the latest at the Eurobike, we will be able to present precise information regarding design and prices” says Markus Hachmeyer. Schwalbe will be responsible for the production and marketing of the system that is expected to be compatible with conventional tyres and rims and weigh less than 200g.

 

Comments

Derek - 06/26/14 - 7:38pm

These seem really promising. I would love to try them out.

Jason - 06/26/14 - 8:19pm

Looks same as a 4WD beadlock setup.

Maxwell - 06/26/14 - 8:22pm

if it works on dirt bikes….

http://nuetech.com/tubliss/

josh - 06/26/14 - 8:26pm

Not really a new idea. Maybe some new features though.

http://nuetech.com/

Aar - 06/26/14 - 9:27pm

If they would place the valves 180 degrees apart, wheel balance would improve.

Robbie Mubbledutt - 06/26/14 - 9:37pm

Looks like you deleted the 2nd paragraph, maybe?

TUBELESSJON - 06/26/14 - 10:26pm

How about Schwalbe works on keeping inventory in the US then come out with new product.
I swear Schwalbe would take over the US market if they ever had anything in stock.

dullknives - 06/26/14 - 10:47pm

@Aar – with the very minimal weight of a presta valve it would be imperceptible. hell i’d wager that manufacturing tolerances in tires plays a bigger role in wheel balance. plus this setup allows quicker and easier access to both valves for inflation.

greg - 06/27/14 - 1:05am

buddy of mine is experimenting with a ghetto version of this. put an old tubular in his 29rim. inflated that to over 100psi, the rest to 20. he says it’s awesome.

muf - 06/27/14 - 1:22am

This is cool but I can’t help to wonder: do you guys burp often?
I run at 30 PSI for 75kg and I wouldn’t imagine going lower than that because i would lose too much in handling. I’ve yet to burp since i use tubeless (granted ive a pretty tight rim/tire setup as I was afraid of burps initially)

Given that, I feel like this is too much complexity for the gain. Maybe for downhill or stuff hitting really hard and really fast.

Alexander - 06/27/14 - 2:48am

What would happen if you get a road tube inside a tubeless tyre? use the road tube (or a smaller MTB tube) for the high pressure and the tubeless (drill a new hole in the rim with tubeless valve, the air will go around the smaller tube) for the low pressure.

Pasabaporaquí - 06/27/14 - 4:19am

I use pretty low pressures(90% of the time with actual tubeless tires)and never burp(the wheels).
While this can be interesting for heavy duty cycling, I don’t think XC riders and WW in general will be very keen about this…
Besides, it’s been a while since my last Schwalbe, but my experience with them it’s they flat like crazy. Never had cut tires like that in my life!

BeeJay - 06/27/14 - 6:27am

If you are happy at 30 psi I’m not sure this system is targeted at you.

Ditto - 06/27/14 - 8:01am

I am the target buyer of this product.

My stats:
64kg XC Rider, CX racer.
Run 22 – 35psi (calibrated gauge pressure) tubeless setups (dry/with latex) on a variety of 26/27.5/29 rims (rim-stripped/UST/dirty convert).

I have burped or simply pulled the tire off of each through aggressive riding/cornering. I have not been able to successfully run tubeless in CX with the desired traction/float.

Was put in the hospital once because of a tyre blow-off.

I would *love* to have this system in a lightweight wheelset, particularly for 29 MTB or Cyclocross (can anyone say ‘no more tubulars’?) where traction differential and contact patch cause enormous cross-load forces.

Say what you will, I’m already in-line and signed up.

FoolCyclist - 06/27/14 - 8:18am

On my Spank Oozy rims I have run pressures down in the twenties at times and have taken some hard hits that haven’t caused a snakebite. I mainly did this to see if I really needed to go tubeless. So far it has been working great. I think a well designed rim bead is going to do more to help prevent pinch flats and burping than an over complicated design like this. With a good stout sidewall tire and light weight tube I am set to run just about any pressure I want.

Dockboy - 06/27/14 - 8:34am

@Alexander, if you put a road tube in the wheel, the rubber will stretch out, probably bursting. You need something rigid to resist the pressure, a job traditionally left up to the tire, while a tube keeps the air in. This system uses a different material for the inner tube, and it stretches much less.

Keith - 06/27/14 - 8:40am

@muf Yes, I do burp quite often and it drives my wife crazy….My tuebless tires never burp…

I have been running 20psi up front and 23psi in the back tire for years and have NEVER burped a tire. I’ve even been lazy and ended up riding with 14 psi in the front tire with no issues.

I’m over 200 lbs with my gear….

pmurf - 06/27/14 - 8:42am

@Alexander, unfortunately the road tube’s diameter would expand along with it’s girth when inflated, leaving it suspended in the middle of the tire, or worse, pushing out against the tread side, and wouldn’t do much to lock the bead in place. I think even a 650c tube wouldn’t cut it. Cool idea though, might be worth experimenting with a cheap rim and small tube.

pmurf - 06/27/14 - 8:43am

haha – yeah, what @Dockboy said…

Ryan - 06/27/14 - 9:37am

I keep Schwalbe on all my bikes, in fact I put new Nics on my 29′r last night (after it taking roughly two months due to aforementioned US stock availability). As a rigid SS rider, the added cushioning this would offer will be welcome. I run Nics tubeless on my 29, tubed on my 26′s, and despite keeping them between 17-22 psi, I’ve never burped or pinched…and I’m 200lbs wet and again, riding rigid.

BeeJay - 06/27/14 - 10:03am

@Ditto, ditto. A reliable low pressure tubless cx setup would be a game changer. I’ve had fair luck with tubeless specific tires on crest rims but its not foolproof.

Ck - 06/27/14 - 10:27am

I look forward to the day that this system is at least somewhat affordable. I would love to do away with tubulars for CX and to have this for MTB.

Tom - 06/27/14 - 10:29am

Early, so maybe I missed something, but this adds 200 g per wheel? That’s a lot, and I’m no weight weenie.

FWIW, if you lube up your beads with a mix of Dawn and warm water when mounting tires, the caustic nature of the soap will kind of lightly “melt” the bead rubber onto the rim, which all but eliminates burping.

Ty - 06/27/14 - 10:34am

Used in NASCAR since 1966

Gravy - 06/27/14 - 11:41am

This Schwalbe set-up is not at all “revolutionary” at all, it’s a blatant rip-off; Mavic and Michelin did this for its factory racers in the mid-’90′s with the “Le SYSTEM”!
I still have some of Juergen Beneke ‘s system wheels in my garage !

i - 06/27/14 - 11:51am

If the cost is reasonable, I’ll pick up a set as soon as they’re available, and I’ll echo the comment: I’m not a weight weenie by any stretch – I don’t even know what my bikes weigh, but 200g per tire seems like a lot. Maybe it’s 200g total for a set?

All in all, good thinking here; separating the pressure that’s holding the tire in place from the pressure the tire is riding on. As usual, tech comes along for motorcross, then 10-15 years later someone puts a presta valve on it and it’s revolutionary.

dh boy - 06/27/14 - 11:57am

I wonder has fast they roll copared to std setup ??

icanfixanythingwithducttape - 06/27/14 - 12:17pm

Inflate a road tire to the diameter needed, wrap it in duct tape, put it in the tire(after a few mods), add sealant to tire. Presta!

Jk, Greg’s ghetto version what uses tubulars sounds much more promising for a d.i.y. solution.

Slow Joe Crow - 06/27/14 - 12:47pm

@Alexander, Dockboy and pmurf, it looks like Greg’s friend had the right idea for a home brew version by using a road tubular tire as the insert since the tire casing will keep the tube from over expanding.
Also this might not be the best option for CX unless it allows a more flexible sidewall since one of the reasons for using tubulars in cross is to get a very flexible tire that conforms to the terrain. This is also one of the drawbacks to tubeless tires in CX because the stiffer sidewalls reduce tire conformability and increase the risk of burping. However if the insert can force the beads against the rim then you could run a softer sidewall, like an “open tubular” road tire and then you’d have a magic setup for cross.

Chris - 06/27/14 - 1:51pm

I have the neutech Tubliss system on my moto. Absolutely love it – huge improvement. That said, I don’t predict similar benefit here.

1. The weight difference is much more relevant on the MTB. On the moto it can actually be a savings over a UHD tube and more over the weight is less important. 200g is significant on a MTB. I’d see this as a DH solution only

2. The moto can benefit from very low pressures because of the very stiff tire sidewall. I can already run my tubeless MTB tire to the point of sidewall squirm. Any lower pressure is just going to result in unacceptable sidewall squirm unless they start making stiffer (i.e., heavier) MTB sidewalls.

Ditto - 06/27/14 - 3:25pm

@Keith @Ryan – Respectfully, you may be running very low pressures in your specific rim/tyre combination; which may be perfectly adequate for your riding style.

However, please recognize that technology is not advanced for the average, moreso for the edge of functionality, which is a place where some riders look for marginal gains (Team Sky, or Track Riders for example) – eventually, the stable form of an innovative design becomes the norm and more widely available.

If your setup works for you, stick with it. Ride on, Ride Strong.

@Pasabaporaqui – Have you tried returning the Schwalbes (or any tyre brand) you slice if you feel that they failed too early? Or have you considered that it is a mis-match between riding terrain and tyre choice?

@Tom – melting your rim-bead? really? Who told you this? Give them their knowledge back, because it is faulty. Here is why: Dawn soap is a Chlorinated solvent, but Tyre rubber is synthetic Butyl (likely with a Chlorinated form component) with Carbon Black added, meaning that a chlorinated solvent cannot perform an ion exchange for oxidation with butyl (aka corrosion). The only concern with Chlorinated solvents is in situations where you have available exchange ions, such as in non-anodized aluminum components (i.e. your rim interior), which would be the first to exhibit signs of exposure to the soap. You are simply mistaken as to what is happening in your setup.

@Gravy @Ty @josh – Yes, it is true that the tech is adopted from elsewhere and/or improved from previous attempts – “all ideas are second hand” is something your Samuel Clemens said, and Steve Jobs clearly stated “Creativity is just connecting things”… just to emphasize my non-originality of pointing this out, I used direct quotations.

Get out and pedal.

Speshy - 06/27/14 - 3:53pm

This is a blatant rip-off of Taco Bell’s 7-layer burrito system. Seriously though I would not want to deal with this contraption when it goes flat in the middle of the desert in 100 degree heat on a Saturday morning.

fgh - 06/27/14 - 3:58pm

I’ll add another never burp here. 25-30psi. pacenti rim jet2 tires. tried to burp them manually at 10psi with tools.. its very hard. its also very hard to put on I must say

Andre Szucs - 06/27/14 - 7:19pm

I absolutely love to see new concepts. My note on this one: Why add complexity to the system if we (us humans) can take the complexity completely out of the equation using other concepts like the ERW Airless Tires?

Matt - 06/28/14 - 7:41pm

@Andre Szucs
“Why add complexity to the system if we (us humans) can take the complexity completely out of the equation using other concepts like the ERW Airless Tires?”

Because physics.
A pneumatic tire is able to use the entire volume of air as a means of absorbing shock, not just the section of air between the contact patch and the adjacent section of rim. Also because air has nearly-elastic collisions, there is very very little energy loss in the compression/expansion of the air in the rim.

Because economics:
Oh, and air never ‘wears out’. Air is cheap. Rubber is cheap. Tires and tire tech are ubiquitous, just about everything that moves on land uses pneumatic tires (trains & treaded vehicles being the few exceptions); therefore there is a large selection of people with expertise on how to make tires.

tl;dr: Pneumatic tires are one of the most amazing invenetions of the past 200 years. Anybody saying they have something better who isn’t showing you a functioning hoverboard is doing an art project or is looking for ‘investors’ (who will never see their money back).

ed - 06/30/14 - 3:04pm

Who said “I don’t think XC riders”, any XC riders I know would sell their soul to save 200 grams at each end

MotoPete - 06/30/14 - 8:34pm

Sounds like this would work great on larger volume tires. Like Fatbike or 29er+ where tire rebound control would improve ride quality. Any thoughts fast fat tire chargers?

Cloxxki - 09/14/14 - 7:51pm

How could they apply for patents? I published this very concept in detail back around the millennium. My prior art surely is still out there in cyberspace…

Cloxxki - 09/14/14 - 8:02pm

http://archive.mtbr.com/16/0EF1CEBA.php

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