Manufacturer Round Up: Who’s Making SRAM XX1 Drivers & What Are the Design Challenges?

Prototype E13 XX1 Driver

A lot of folks are taking a hard look at the new SRAM XX1 group, and not just because it’ll drop a half a pound from a traditional 2×10 group. Early reports, including our own testing by Tyler and myself, suggest the performance and gear range really hit the sweet spot for everything from XC to all-mountain riding.

So, as you’re planning the big upgrade, wheels will be the other half of the decision. We asked around the major wheel and hub brands to see who’s working on what, and here are the replies from American Classic, Chris King, Crank Brothers, E13, Easton, Hope, Industry Nine, Mavic, White Industries and Profile, among others.

UPDATED: Specialized wheel info added (2p EST). Syntace info added (2p EST). Corrected Easton’s answers to design differences (5:30p EST). Stan’s No Tubes, Hadley Racing, Rolf Prima and SUNRingle added (1/2/12 @4a EST). Reynolds Cycling added (1/3/12 @2p  EST). Ritchey responses by Tom Ritchey! added (1/4/12 @ 3p EST.) DT Swiss info added (11P EST @ 1/9/2013.)

BIKERUMOR: Will you be producing an XX1 compatible freehub body?

American Classic: Yes, the cassette bodies are in final production.

Chris King:  They’re looking into it.

Crank Brothers: Yes, crankbrothers is currently testing the XX1 group and cassette on our wheelsets.

DT Swiss: Yes, as one of the companies involved in helping pioneer this standard, we’ve been producing the XD Driver body for several months now. The XD Driver (as it appears today) was a collaboration between DT’s and SRAM’s engineers.

E13: Yes, we will. We are currently finishing prototyping models right now. I was actually going through fit checks on the freehub body and the new cassette on Tuesday [12/18/2012]. 

Easton: Yes.

Hadley: Yes.

Hope: Yes. It’s already available.

I9:  Yes.

Mavic: Yes.

Profile: We will be offering an XX1 compatible freehub body for our Elite MTB cassette hubs at some point in 2013. We haven’t had a lot of demand for them so far, so there’s not a huge rush to get them built tomorrow, but second quarter is possible. Don’t hold a gun to my head on that date- sometimes stuff happens faster, sometimes it takes longer if we get bogged down.

Stan’s No Tubes: Yes

Syntace: Yes – it’s in the works now.

Ritchey: Yes, Ritchey will offer XX1 freehub bodies.

White Industries: Yes, we will be offering the new XX1 and estimate the freehub body to be ready the beginning of February, with the launch date set for NAHBS.

BIKERUMOR: For what specific hub or wheelset (if applicable)?

American Classic: They will fit any of our wheelsets and hubs, but it is for mtb, so I guess the correct answer is they will fit our mtb wheelsets and mtb hubs.

Crank Brothers: The freehub will be compatible with current crankbrothers 3 and 11 level wheels. In the future we will offer this option on all 3 and 11 level wheelsets. Due to the higher price point of the XX1 group, we will not offer this on our more affordable 2 level wheels. We feel that this is applicable for both all mountain and cross country riding, so we will offer this on both the iodine and cobalt platform.

DT Swiss: Our XD driver is compatible on any DT Swiss Star Ratchet drive hub or wheel set. Currently the XD Driver is only available as a separate purchase. Moving forward, DT Swiss will have XX1 compatible wheels and hubs in our line-up. There are just a few exceptions that your readers need to be aware of though. Due to different internals, our DT 340 hubs or any of our pawl-based wheels/hubs are not convertible to the XD Driver. OEM wheels built from DT components, may or may not be convertible – it’s best to check with your local bike shop prior to purchasing parts.

E13: Our compatible freehub will work with all of our e*thirteen rear wheels and hubs.

Easton: The XD Driver will work with all Easton M1 hubs (Haven, Haven Carbon, EA90XC, EC90XC, EC70 Trail, etc…)

Hadley: We will be producing an XD freehub body made from 6AL-4V titanium.It will be compatible with all Hadley rear hubs 135mm and 150mm dating back to a manufacturing date of 2002

Hope: It fits straight onto our pro 2 EVO hubs and wheels. The older pro 2 hubs just need an additional axle change.

I9:  We have XX1 freehub bodies available for all of our current mountain wheelsets and “Classic” hubs.  They will also fit all of our mountain hubs and wheels going back to the companies’ first wheels produced in 2005.

Check out Tyler’s first look and install of the I9 XX1 driver here.

Mavic: It’s an ITS-4 freehub body, so it will fit Crossmax SLR, ST, and SX, plus the 2013 CrossTrail.

Profile: Our Profile Elite MTB hubs.

Stan’s No Tubes: They will fit our older ZTR hubs or our current 3.30, 3.30 Ti, & 3.30HD hubs.  Essentially the consumer should be able to retro fit any of our mountain bike wheels.  We also build with DT Swiss 240 hubs and Hope Pro II EVO hubs. We have  a few of the DT Swiss 240 XX1 freehub bodies in stock  already and willing be receiving the Hope XX1 freehub bodies shortly.

Syntace: Will be available for the whole Syntace MX Wheel series.

Ritchey: Our XX1 freehub will be a quick and easy swap for all current and future model Ritchey Vantage II mountain wheels, which are available in 26”, 650b and 29er versions.

White Industries: The freehub body will be available on a number of hubs, however, the main two that are targeted are our MI6 disc rear and the MI5 rear for rim brakes.

Left to right: Industry Nine's XD and Standard Driver

BIKERUMOR: When do you expect the product to be available at local bike shops?

American Classic: Feb 2013

Crank Brothers: April 2013.

DT Swiss: Now, today, as we speak….(err, type!) Our version of the XD Driver is available for Bike Shops to order through any of our distributors. We have versions for quick release, 12x142mm , and our slick 10x135mm RWS system which helps bring thru-axle stiffness to open drop-post (135mm) frames. More details can be found here.

E13: We will be in production with them in February, so if shops get them on order, they could arrive on the sales floors before March kicks in.

Easton: January 2013.

Hadley: Mid Feb 2013.

Hope: We’ve been supplying to retailers for the past month (December 2012.)

I9: We have been shipping our XX1 freehubs since early October and currently have them in stock.

Mavic: The kit should be available in shops by mid Feb 2013.

Profile: Sometime second quarter 2013.

Stan’s No Tubes: Feb 2013

Syntace: Late spring 2013

Ritchey: Initial testing from our team riders has been very positive, so we’re hoping to have freehub bodies in shops by late March 2013.

White Industries: February

BIKERUMOR: How much will it cost?

American Classic: $85.00 msrp . Or it can be ordered pre-installed on a brand new wheelset or hub at no extra charge.

Crank Brothers: $100 MSRP

DT Swiss: MSRP is in the $100-120 range. The kit includes a XD Driver body and a proprietary end cap (required by the reduced freehub body diameter on the 10T cog side). If the rider desires to switch their axle type as part of the upgrade process, a non-drive side end cap and possibly an internal axle (for older generation hubs) will also need to be purchased. Again, best to check with yout local bike shop to determine what will exactly be needed.

E13: The suggested MSRP in the U.S. for the freehub kit will be $97.95 and it will include the freehub body, new premium bearings, springs, and pawls.

Easton: $100 MSRP

Hadley: End user price will be $165.00 – $180.00 U.S. and include the freehub with new bearings, pawls, seals and a new axle assy in any configuration ( QR, 12mm X 142mm, ect ).

Hope: The new free hub body is £65 in the UK.

I9: MSRP on a freehub shell-only is $90, a freehub shell with inner bearings and spacer is $110, and a complete freehub with all new pawls and springs is $220. The most common upgrade kit is the shell with inner bearings, as the rest of the parts will transfer over from a rider’s existing hub.

Mavic: MSRP is not yet determined.

Profile: We will probably offer them first as an option with new hub sales, more likely than not without a price increase over the standard 9/10 speed Shimano/Sram compatible body. It will depend on the material we use, as well, obviously if we manufacture it out of Ti, it will be more expensive than if we make it from CrMo or Aluminum.

Stan’s No Tubes: $80 MRSP for the 3.30 hubs $112 MSRP for DT Swiss 240

Syntace: MSRP – $79

Ritchey: We’ll be competitive with other offerings in the market.

White Industries: The MSRP kit will be $120.00

Prototype Mavic XD Driver with 135 and 142 (left to right) axle adapters.

BIKERUMOR: What do you think are some of the advantages or disadvantages to the new XX1 freehub body?

American Classic: Advantages: it fits 11 speed in a 10 speed spacing. Does not require wheel re-dishing. Provides a large gear range for the rider.

Crank Brothers: The biggest disadvantage we can see is the range is a little narrower than the 2×10 or 3×9 system. However, the simplicity of the system is very nice for all mountain riding. Weight loss and lack of chain suck/chain drop all seem to outweigh the range issue when riding the local trails we have here in Laguna Beach.

DT Swiss: The advantages are numerous. Many of us here within the DT offices have been running since single-chain ring set-ups for quite some time. All of like the simplicity and the advantages a single-front chain ring system can provide. One of the big advantages to the XX1 system specifically is a wider range cassette featuring deeper climbing gears over the systems we currently run. The bigger cassette should provide great for long days in the saddle. Specifically focusing on the freehub body, we’re fans of how the freehub interface has been engineered to address the design specific to the XX1 cassette. It’s also pretty neat that the cassette uses the established locking interface to mount it – no new tools required. The only real disadvantage we can see is educating the cycling public on how this interface and design differs (and why it needed to) over previous designs. It’s a hole new deal for some and it will take some time for people to become familiar with it’s nuances.

E13: We are really fans of bigger bearings in rear wheels and freehub bodies. We would love to have seen bigger bearings in a new freehub design. A little more weight from a larger bearing and hub shell barely increase the angular momentum (acceleration) of the wheel. So if your rims are light and durable, your wheel can actually accelerate as well or better than a lighter wheelset  with lightweight hubs and heavier poorly designed rims.

When we overlaid the new model with our current freehub, our bearing actually poked through the outer edge of the freehub. So we had to change a few things to accommodate the new shape. On the positive side, the new shape will keep cassettes from biting into alloy freehubs as badly.

Prototype American Classic XD Driver

Easton: Advantages : Our design keeps the same bearing size (28mm OD) as our regular SRAM 9/10 speed mountain cassette body.  This isn’t really an advantage over our old cassette bodies, but compared to most competitor designs our bearings should be more robust.Due to the splined cassette/freehub interface only engaging on the large 42t cog, galling of the freehub body by the cassette should be all but eliminated.  The design seems to offer a really strong interface between the cassette and freehub, the cassette is super easy to install and you get the benefits of 11 speeds over a huge range. Disadvantages: Don’t really know, it doesn’t have 12 speeds?

Hadley: The  XD freehub body uses a precision diameter to locate the cassette which eliminates the sloppy mounting of the old style interface and it is also lighter because most of the spline is removed. The way the cassette drive spline interfaces with the freehub also eliminates gouging. So you get 3 obvious  advantages. I don’t see any disadvantages.

 Hope: It’s really the ability to use a small chain ring and still have a wide range of gears. It’s the same as our own 9t cassettes we are working on, giving you a true 1X setup.

I9: One of the big advantages is that you don’t have to worry about individual steel cogs causing gouges in the XX1 cassette body, as they can in an aluminum cassette body.  This is due to the wide contact area between the freehub body splines and the inner cog on the XX1 cassette that transfers torque to the freehub.  You also have almost no risk of the threads on the freehub being damaged during cassette installation, since the inner tube on the cassette doesn’t allow misalignment during installation, and their is more material supporting the threads.  Traditional aluminum cassette bodies can have the threads damaged during installation due to cross threading or over-torquing the lock-ring, since the material thickness at the end of the freehub is very thin.  There is also a small weight saving of about 13 grams on our XX1 freehubs vs. our traditional freehub.  I don’t perceive any real disadvantages with the freehub, and feedback from the field so far has been overwhelmingly positive.

Mavic: XX1 clearly presents benefits in terms of weight and simplicity for the all-mountain or enduro rider. In terms of the wheels themselves, there’s really no difference and, and the freehub body change is a really simple procedure.

Profile: I think it’s a tremendous advantage for SRAM, because only SRAM cassettes will work with it. There’s an advantage for consumers, who get an even wider range of gears on the same cassette. It’s sort of a pain for aftermarket manufacturers, who have to build a different cassette body for yet another standard being changed.

Stan’s No Tubes: This cassette being a single piece will eliminate the gauging of aluminum freehub bodies. SRAM designed it to work with existing standards so it would be easy for companies like us to develop a XX1 freehub body.

Syntace: Comparable to other freehub bodies.

Ritchey: For a company like Ritchey, which has been involved with World Cup level racing since the very beginning, the X11 freehub body makes it possible to simplify the drivetrain and provide a more reliable system for racing. This is something I’ve been a believer in for decades—in the 1990’s I introduced a wide-range Ritchey 2×9 drivetrain as a means to eliminate chain suck and dropped chains, the sort of things which can cost you podium spots in a race. SRAM later introduced their own 2×10 drivetrain for the same reason. X11 is the natural extension of that—hopefully eliminating any front chainring related problems while still offering the gearing range you’ll need. I’ll have an group X11 on my personal race bike for the next Cape Epic.

The only disadvantage is that it creates yet another standard, which means shops need to stock more freehub bodies to cover the demands of their customers.

White Industries: The advantage is that our freehub body is made out of titanium so you have the benefit of light weight without sacrificing strength or integrity like with an aluminum freehub body.  We do not detect any disadvantages to the new system.

Prototype E13 XD Driver fitted to XX1 cassette

BIKERUMOR: What are some of the design differences you had to consider?

American Classic:  I had to precisely calculate the spacing. I used deep hard coating on the exterior of the body. My 6 pawl hub design is particularly well suited to the hi torque of the largest sprocket in the XD system (meaning when the rider is in the super low gear and using the largest sprocket in back, it puts a huge torque load on the hub). Other hubs cannot withstand this kind of torque well. – Bill Shook, Company President & Engineer

Chris King: Our concern is in ensuring that an XX1 compatible Chris King product will meet the extreme demands of today’s mountain bike riders. XX1’s current freehub body configuration poses a particularly interesting challenge and one that we will need to be solved to our standards before we release a Chris King compatible version. We will continue to research XX1 compatible Chris King rear ISO disc hubs until we are confident that we have found an engineering solution that satisfies the high standards of precision, performance, and durability that are characteristic of every Chris King component.

Author’s Speculation: Chris King makes all of their own bearings and bearing races in house. It wouldn’t come as a surprise if they need to develop a new bearing size to fit inside the slightly narrower outside diameter of the XD driver or design an alternative solution to maintain their current bearing sizes. Scroll up and stare at the comparison of the XD and standerd I9 drivers for a visual. 

Crank Brothers: We can retrofit the hub onto our current wheel line. The endcap and the freehub were completely different due to the unique design of the XX1 cassette. Everything else remains unchanged.

DT Swiss: DT worked closely with SRAM to spearhead the new cassette/freehub body interface, so we were at the ground level as the groupo developed. Some of the bigger design parameters that out engineers faced were to accommodate the specific needs inherit to the XX1 cassette’s size, range, and design. In brief:

- Developing an interface that addresses the load placed on the largest cog. Lots of torque required a stout interface.

- Reducing the freehub body on the opposite end to accommodate the smallest 10tcog. The smaller diameter cog just couldn’t fit on the same diameter freehub body like an eleven can..

-It was desired to fit 11 cogs within the same real-estate without altering rear triangle spacing or requiring wheel re-dishing, everyone is just getting up to speed with 12×142!

-Finding a simple solution way to affix the whole cassette to the freehub body.

-Developing a design that doesn’t sacrifice durability in the name of other design elements.

DT had a huge advantage incorporating our star ratchet driver system into the XD Driver design. It’s a design that’s compact, simple, and super adaptable. It’s a design that lends itself well to different applications. The other huge benefit being that our star ratchet system has withstood the test of time and has proven durable in the field. In other words, we had a very solid foundation to build the shell around from there, all the other pieces fell into place.

E13: Other than bearing tweaks, we were able to adapt our free hubs to the new design pretty easily. One of the main differences with the new groupo that we have been concerned with is the growing size of rear cassette cogs and how much force they are able the deliver to the rear hub under load. We looked carefully at this when we launched our wheels last year and have had all positive results from test riders and machine testing.

Easton: The biggest design difference between the SRAM XD and our SRAM 9/10 speed mountain cassette body is packaging. We wanted to use our current hub/axle design, but because of the wider bearing spacing necessary for the SRAM XX1 cassette body we weren’t able to make the endcaps and their o-rings engage in the same manner as before. This necessitated an additional o-ring on the inner bearing spacer to ensure that the cassette body will stay in place when your wheel is off the bike.

Additionally, the endcaps are substantially different. They had to get smaller in almost every dimension to be able to fit within the XX1 cassette. We also wanted to keep some form of protection for the bearings. This was achieved by a thin flange that helps to seal the cassette locking tube from dirt and debris. The result of all these changes is a smaller, lighter freehub that maintains the same durability and functionality as our old SRAM 9/10 speed bodies but with all the benefits of SRAM’s XX1 11 speed cassette.

Hadley: The only design differences between the XD and the Shimano is that the XD has a smaller diameter at the  end of the freehub  which reduces the bearing size, which slightly reduces the axle size at the very end of the drive side .  This was a simple design change.

Hope: Due to the quality of the bearing we use in our cassettes it didn’t really cause any issues going down to such a small outer diameter on the cassette.

I9: The basic interior layout of our freehub design and our current axle system were both compatible with no changes, so it was a relatively easy process to accommodate the external dimensions.  SRAM offered great support for the design process by providing detailed prints and specs on the design, which was helpful as well.  We did have to place the outboard inner freehub bearing partially outside of the shell (the same configuration SRAM uses on some of their XX1 freehubs) in order to accommodate the external specs.   The alternative would have been to downsize our bearing spec. which would have compromised bearing durability.  Functionally, this doesn’t compromise the design, and it provides great support for the XX1 inner cassette tube, providing the cassette added stability.

Mavic:   In terms of manufacturing, the main thing was making sure it’s durable and well-supported by the internal bearings to manage the loads of the large cogset. But the ITS-4 internal architecture is already suited to the new design. So it wasn’t too hard to engineer for XX1.

Profile: I can’t imagine that we’ll have much trouble integrating it into the 6 pawl Ultradrive engagement design we use on all of our Elite hubs. When you can take it from the machine and install it onto a bike in minutes, it’s a lot easier to sort out any potential hiccups than it is to wait for someone else to make them for you, ship them to you, etc. We know right away if we need to make a bearing bore .015mm larger or whatever the case may be.

Stan’s No Tubes: We had to offer six different conversion kits due to the variety of end caps we offer.  It was a pleasure to work with SRAM in the design of this new product.

Ritchey: With any freehub body design you have to pay close attention to tolerances, surface treatments, bearing size and placement and sealing design and technology, but we’ve been making world-class hubs long enough that this is just part of the process. Also, the larger 42t cog on the X11 cassette provides more clearance between the rear derailleur and the spokes when you’re in the lowest gear, which means you can design less dish in your rear wheel for a stronger wheel. Ritchey wheels employ an OCR (Off Center Rim) design to reduce dish, so we’re already able to take advantage of this.

White Industries: SRAM was very helpful with the intellectual property, and the transition to bring this new design to the market place was fairly seamless.

Editor’s Note: We have inquiries out to Hayes and a couple others, and will update the post if/when we get information. Word on the street is Hayes is working on it.

UPDATES:

DT Swiss' XX1 driver Body

Specialized has chimed in to say their Control Race, Control Trail and Traverse wheels are compatible with DT Swiss’ XX1 Driver Body since they use DT’s hub internals.

Hadley Racing didn’t respond to our inquiry for this article but when asked back in September stated – “There are plans, I can’t give you a firm date as to when it will happen.”  They’re doing it! Responses added above.

SUNringle couldn’t provide any information at this time but the product team “is looking into it.” We’ll let you know as they update us.

Rolf Prima:  “Our Ralos (29”, 27.5” and 26”) and Ralos CXC (29”) models will be available with an XX1 compatible freehub starting in early February.”

Reynolds: “We are currently working on an XX1 conversion kit for our current 2013 26AM carbon, 29r carbon, 650b carbon, 29r alloy and 650b alloy. We are expecting availability around late March and MSRP will be around 90.00 usd.

Earlier Reynolds MTN wheels equipped with earlier Reynolds’ hubs will not be compatible with XX1…only the newer versions. If a customer has an older Reynolds wheel we would work with them to relace their wheel. The customer would need to supply a hub, pay for shipping each way and for a small fee (for labor and spokes), Reynolds will work with the customer to get the wheel up to date. ”

KORE: New XX1 freehub bodies just announced, full post here.

Comments

D2 - 12/27/12 - 9:24am

Me likey. Want. Want. Want.

pepe - 12/27/12 - 9:31am

Did we really need another standard? Were we trully so bad with the 9-10 cogs in the rear? Honestly, I don’t fall for this, neither for the 142mm rear hub, 15mm front axle nor any other concept that makes my bikes incompatible with… I don’t have the money, and I dont need such “modern” developments, that for me are just marketing campaigns… I feel a very dissapointed with all the companies that do not give an option for us, to use this new things in our “old” equipment.

cowbell - 12/27/12 - 9:38am

I would rather have 6-9 speeds on a wider single speed hub. The narrower 10/11 speed chain should let you squeeze more gears in while benefitting from the width of a single speed hub. I really don’t have a need to shift through so many extra gears.

Tom - 12/27/12 - 9:53am

I don’t see it as another standard but just a option if you want to run a XX1 system. Buying a replacement free hub body will propably be the cheapest part you buy for a XX1 set up.
I am a big fan of any 1x set up and the XX1 is a great idea but a lot of money for most people so it will be interesting to see if they will bring out a X9 groupset or a shimano equivalent. Or the best/cheapest option might be if Hope ever make thier 1×10 wide ratio cassette.

Nate - 12/27/12 - 9:54am

I am still waiting for someone to comment on the efficiency loss of running small chainring combos most of the time, and having non-optimal chainlines more of the time than with a 2x or 3x. I remember reading some literature about how the largest efficiency losses in our chain-driven drivetrains come from those two factors, with weight not even factoring into the equation. I get the appeal of dropping 200 grams or whatever, but doesn’t it seem like the efficiency loss would be greater than anything you could gain from being 200 grams lighter?

Does anyone know anything more about this issue to comment?

Just Looking - 12/27/12 - 10:18am

Folks always complaining about new “standards”: companies are introducing them because they’re better. New “standards” have been around since the beginning of the bike, it’s why we have derailleurs in the first place. A bike website trying to give you the latest industry news isn’t the best place to be poking through if you don’t like this stuff.

Frankly, I’m impressed with how many things they can keep compatible. It’s a lot to keep track of…

If you’re uncomfortable with that, one option is to take up running. Then you just buy some shoes and don’t have to worry about expensive outdated equipment.

XX1forOldSingleSpeeders - 12/27/12 - 10:25am

XX1 is an excuse for old and worn out single speeders to switch to gears without compromising their desire for simplicity. Those same MTBAARP folks will probably pick up a full suspension ride to go along with it as well.

Marc - 12/27/12 - 10:28am

Nate,

A 32t XX1 chainring is the same that most folks are running for their middle ring, 90% of the time. By your logic, efficiency should *improve* at the lower gear ratios (the top of the cassette). It’s only when compared to the big ring that efficiency would be lost- and most mountain bikers don’t spend a whole lot of time up there. All in all, I’m personally eager to give XX1 a go.

marc

Bob Nunnink - 12/27/12 - 10:32am

XX1 freehub bodies for Stan’s wheels are due in February cost will be $90 http://www.notubes.com/XD-Freehub-XX1-P1107C44.aspx Add your email to our list and we will send you an email when they arrive. We have a few of the DT Swiss XX! freehubs available for DT Swiss 240135 builds. 142 spacing is gone but we will reorder.

Mike - 12/27/12 - 10:47am

Looks like my wife is getting a getting a Chris King rear hub and I’ll be getting her DT Swiss.

Matthew Alloy - 12/27/12 - 11:42am

I love the new design of the free hub body big improvement that needed to happen, Tired of hassling with removing cassettes from galled bodies. Love 1 X 11 and wide range .

Shane - 12/27/12 - 11:54am

Any word on whether Hadley is doing a XD free hub?

dicky - 12/27/12 - 12:19pm

Shane, check the Hadley website…

yes, me make funny.

JOEP - 12/27/12 - 12:31pm

I want a Pinion/Nicolai bike. Don’t get me wrong making things simpler is good. I like not having a front derailleur and ran 1×9 forever, but I ran out of gear range after a while having to sacrifice climbing ability for over all top end and vice versa.

The Pinion though is what I really want. Single speed Hope rear hub. Yeah very nice.

dislivello - 12/27/12 - 12:43pm

mmm only 28 external dimension bearing is good bat not space for put second seal ..sramm need to modify support of gear in order to have 0.5mm more space. now is 1mm monly

zscs - 12/27/12 - 1:09pm

Do you have any information about Fulcrum?

Chris - 12/27/12 - 2:38pm

I’ve been riding a XX1 group for the last 4 weeks, and its quieter, smoother and cleaner-looking than any other groupo I’ve used in the last 18 years.

SRAM is listening to consumers and is thinking down the road as well. Most XC racers were staying in the large 39t/42t ring, only going down into the smaller 26t/28t if absolutely necessary (which wasn’t a lot). On the trail riding/enduro/all mountain side of our sport, the majority of us have been moving to the single ring setup with a chain guide.

In either case, XC or Enduro, the XX1 group was designed to improve each component and the system as a whole. Remove the front derailleur, remove the cable, remove the front shifter – not only for weight savings, but we were carrying around something most of us weren’t using. Not only that, chains were dropping on 2×10 systems, as well as on XC top mount guides. Wider range will allow for everyone to now be able to use one groupo across the board – the way a drive train should function. Also the way in which the rear derailleur actuates across the gear range, prevents the chain from skipping under load, while pedaling through rough rock gardens.

For those wanting to argue the “anti-new-standards” stance, you are likely the same person who is against the new iPhone cable/plug. If “better” is truly better, then what’s the problem? A company exists to create a customer, in simplest terms, (and sell a product at a profit). Since September when the XX1 groups were available for order from SRAM and Distributors, they have sold out. Obviously SRAM knows their customer, understands the needs of the customer and have created a new product that will sell.

Nice work SRAM! Shimano, where you at?

Nick - 12/27/12 - 7:16pm

SRAM listens to their customers? Then why did they promise a replaceable 36t cassette cog before XX was released and now nothing? $425 for a cassette that will wear out like just like all the other cassettes that came before it? Give me a break. If you think that is progress, get your head examined. I think the idea of XX1 is great. The end result is a scam. Here’s hoping that Hope comes out with a more reasonable 10spd solution that won’t break the bank.

chuck dick - 12/27/12 - 7:23pm

Filth flarn filth, not another standard! Bah humbug! I still have a unicycle with a square wheel. I also don’t use those fancy shoe things people wear, God gave you two feet so use them, like that Flintstones guy. And who needs a house when a tree with leaf cover can be found in any jungle? And these telephones? Bluey! Just walk to the person’s house you want to talk to face to face.

All this technology is too much.

(But I do want a Specialized S-Works Epic 29er. THAT I’ll make an exception for.)

Pete - 12/27/12 - 7:53pm

So if I’m reading this correctly, I will never be getting an XD driver for my King wheels. Great. Just great.

Chicken in a Biskit - 12/28/12 - 1:08am

@Nick- So super high end cassettes still wear out and you’re pissed about it? I don’t get it.

Maybe Sram’s customers told them that having a single replaceable cassette cog thats 32 or 36 or 42 teeth was a waste of time, because it is.

Nick - 12/28/12 - 1:47am

@Chicken- I’m not pissed as much as baffled. And no, Sram’s customer’s were sold a lie when they were told that they would be able to replace the large ALUMINUM cog that they knew would wear out faster than the rest of the cassette. There are plenty of pissed off customers with XX cassette paperweights due to the fact that they can’t replace the 36t cog.

M4rcassin - 12/28/12 - 4:35am

XTR 36T cassette uses Titanium on the lower cogs … just saying … If you cut the nonsense, as someone who’s working in LBS I can tell you that Shimano cassettes are better (not tend to be, they are just better).

One piece of advice for the kind of customers whom gonna buy XX1 on the internet, if you want to fit it on a bike yourself, which is not rocket science, use a dérailleur alignment gage.

Ray - 12/28/12 - 9:36am

News about progress Hubs???
Any news for centers Progress …
Some compatible adapter for Progress hubs.. ..?

Riley - 12/28/12 - 10:05am

Pepe- you must be joking, have you been living under a rock since you were born? With your logic, we should stop all advancements in any industry because they create obsolescence. Get off it, luddite!

Nick- Who pi$$ed in your Wheaties? Newsflash- high performance parts can and do cost more with a sacrifice in longevity compared to cheaper parts. Sounds like you and your “pissed” friends should have thought about the maintenance costs of owning a high performance groupset/bike- DEAL WITH IT!

CJ - 12/28/12 - 10:44am

I love this line ” traditional 2×10 group”, as 2*10 mountain groups are traditional now? It is funny to me the innovation from the industry and SRAM, it was new to go from 3/9 to 2/10, and now 1/10 (probably 1/11 soon) is really innovative? I cannot wait until SRAM comes out with the next best, most efficient thing, the 1/1 set up. Wow a break through. I am sure all the marketing people, the bloggers and Bicycling Magazine will tell us why this is lighter, faster, better and will make women like us more.

I had no idea how ahead of the game some of us where in the 1990′s with our single speeds and crazy 2*9 Shimano XTR set up for XC racing, where we radically unscrewed the small chain ring…………..

Chris - 12/28/12 - 12:12pm

ok, for all those who are loving the part of this rant about XX cassettes and the replaceable 36t cog – really? everything else on your bike is working great and smooth as silk, except for the 36t cog? The cog with most surface area is worn beyond its ability to be used? That being said, you haven’t replaced your chain? front chain rings? brake pads? bottom bracket? If you ride enough to blow out a 36t cog, then you are surely going to have to replace damn near every other part of your drive train! Parts wear, especially high end parts.

XX cassette as a paper weight? – give us all a break!

Har Har Har - 12/28/12 - 12:17pm

AAH! New products! New technology! Something probably better than what I am already using! I’m jealous and angry I just bought a bike with the old “standards”! I’m going to go online and post useless comments about why this stuff isn’t good and argue theories of pretend stereotypes! Yep. That’s what I’m going to do!
(and in a few years when I am riding this new stuff, I’ll be defending it when another new standard comes out!)
I hate my life.

Nick - 12/28/12 - 3:40pm

I actually love my life and like a lot of SRAM products. I just purchased 10spd gripshift.

An aluminum 36t cog VS the rest of the cassette, which is made out of steel. Doesn’t take a lot of brain power to figure out which is gonna last longer. And comparing it to replacement of a chain, brake pads, or bb? All of those cost a fraction of the cost to replace an XX cassette. Apples to oranges. Give me a break.

My next cassette will be an XTR so I at least have the option to replace a worn out section. Having choices is a good thing. Hopefully there will be more on the horizon.

Either you are just blind, SRAM fanboys with deep pockets, never actually ride your bikes, or are getting your paychecks singed by SRAM.

silverlining - 12/28/12 - 4:52pm

SRAM has asked all parties upset by the price and wear of the new cassette to file a formal written complaint and send it to: The Everlasting Gobstopper Department, attn: Willy Wonka.

Jeb - 12/30/12 - 3:21am

Don’t understand the focus of 1×10 on a trail bike. I’m a Cat 1 XC racer who also races Enduros and where I ride I need a 22-34 on my trail bike to climb (clean) the tech stuff where I live. I guess they just figure most longer travel riders are unfit slobs preferring to push their bikes up the climbs, lame. I’ll take the weight and versatility of my triple any day.

Ray - 12/31/12 - 9:18am

Any information about Progress Hubs..???

Poster - 12/31/12 - 1:48pm

I am complaining

Leon - 01/02/13 - 10:23am

What about Fulcrum? Did you ask them?

Saris - 01/03/13 - 4:17am

@ Ray and @ Leon

Hey Guys,

There’s a lot of companies manufacturing wheels and it would have been impossible to contact all of them. I used the QBP and BTI catalogs to compile a list of big manufacturers to contact and we’re still waiting on responses from several manufacturers.

If you don’t see anyone on this list that you’re interested in – you should send them a link to our article! We’d be happy to include their responses.

Thanks,
Saris

jrp - 01/06/13 - 2:43pm

As a single speeder, I don’t give a flying fsck about new derailer-based drivetrain standards.

As a bike mechanic, I see more setup options my customers would want to use and more things to keep swapped-in in my memory. This is the kind of stuff that makes a nerd’s life interesting, so bring it on!

phil - 01/07/13 - 1:31am

Hope is on the ball, dayum

Pete - 01/08/13 - 12:12am

Hi guys,

I’ve been working on getting set up for XX1 on my new bike and have 2011 Easton Haven 26″ wheels that I was hoping would be able to work with XX1. I called Easton to ask about their progress with the XD freehub body and the response I got from them was a little different then the info that you guys have. I left a voicemail for Ben Clemens at Easton and he took the time to send me an email response. On December 14 he replied:

“We are currently testing an XD driver compatible with the XX1 cassette for our mountain wheels, though production has not been confirmed or commenced yet.

We do not have a date for availability at this time; a rough estimate would be March 2013.
I would recommend signing up for our newsletter and hooking up with us on Facebook.
We will send out a notification and post it on FB when it becomes available, like our Shimano 11 speed road cassette body.
https://www.eastoncycling.com/en-us/customer/account/login/
https://www.facebook.com/eastoncycling

There will not be a new cassette body for our older M1-120 and M1-220 hubs.
These hubs will not be compatible with XX1.
All 2013 HAVEN wheels will be compatible with any new cassette bodies.

Best,

Ben Clemens
Customer Service Representative
Easton Cycling Lead”

This is obviously a little different than the Easton response that was reported in this article. The hub type that Ben said would not be XX1 compatible is the blue axle version that has the standard 9mm QR. Mine was new in April of 2011. I suspect that Ben’s answer about which hubs will be able to run the XD freehub is accurate. It would be great if BikeRumor’s “January 2013″ information about Easton XD freehub availability was right. We’ll know soon enough!

Hope this helps,

Pete P. – Breckenridge, CO

Mindless - 01/09/13 - 7:20pm

The ONLY thing that matters to me is if Shimano comes out with an updated equivalent of SLX cassette. I run 11-36, and would not mind at all 10-38.

But I do not want 11 speed for that. In fact, I will be happier with an 8-speed with this gear range.

Woof - 01/24/13 - 5:26pm

Next Up… SRAM electronic 11 speed XX1 mountain shifter ! :-)

John - 02/10/13 - 12:06pm

I’m a little baffled by the comments made regarding the ‘wearing-out’ of the aluminum 36-tooth cog on the XX cassette. A couple of things come to mind here…

First…are you REALLY spending THAT much time in that particular cog? That in and of itself leads me to believe that you need to ramp up your training to address your power output deficiency. Second…I’ve been riding mine for well over a year…logging hundreds of miles…and have yet to have an issue. Try cleaning your equipment regularly…because I get the feeling you’re one of those guys whose cassette is carrying around an extra 200-300 grams of crap, and yet you still complain about the weight of your components. Next, if you don’t want to have to use your cassette as a “paperweight” then buy the next level down. Sure it’s heavier, but I would imagine (like all of us) you could stand to lose some lbs yourself, thereby making up the difference without shelling out the bucks. How do I know this? Because clearly you are not an elite level racer, or else you wouldn’t care about the cost of the components because your sponsor would be taking the financial hit…not you. NUTRITION, NUTRITION, NUTRITION…ALWAYS a better cost to benefit ratio!

Lusus - 02/22/13 - 10:38am

Sun Ringle makes awesome wheels and without the XX1 i’m going elsewhere…

CTGURU - 07/03/13 - 8:16pm

got an email from Sun saying their cassette body should be out in July

Tim Brummer - 07/31/13 - 7:40pm

Are any of these drivers compatible with a Shimano hub? I don’t have Shimano I have a Tune Power Tap I want to put 1×11 on, and it uses a Shimano driver.

Bodie - 08/25/13 - 5:32pm

I just received a response from Sun Ringle customer service announcing the XX1 compatible freehub body will be released the second week of September.

Jonny - 11/22/13 - 1:14am

Has anyone seen a crank brothers XX1 body yet???

Jon - 11/30/13 - 1:53pm

I’ve done a full season on XX1 ,including around 12 xc racers , my cassette has done approx 4200 miles , no visible wear as yet !!!!

DavidG - 03/05/14 - 5:05pm

It seems simpler, lighter, cleaner, a better design. My concern though, has to do with price. How will this trickle down to the lower segments? I mean, specifically because of the cnc’d cassette, which costs a fortune precisely because of that manufacturing process. I am curious about what solution will be found without cnc’ing a whole cassete out of a block of steel. There may not even be one. It’s possible that these cassettes will always be pricier, or much pricier, than the “classic” ones. Which means that the classic system will continue to be the only option for the lower segments.

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