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Alto Cycling spins out patent-pending new hub axle, adds carbon road tubeless rims

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Alto Cycling has updated their hubs with new axles using a keyed assembly design that, along with improved bearing compatibility, makes their already ultra smooth hubs even better. The originals used NSK angular contact radial bearings, but then switched Enduro angular contact bearings, but the design still required some clamp force from the skewers to put the ideal amount of load on the bearings. So while they worked very well, there was room for user error depending on how tightly someone clamped the wheels into the frame. This new design switches to radial bearings and new flanged axles and end caps to remove all axial load from the bearings to they can spin freer than ever.

“The whole reason for the design change was two-fold,” said co-founder Bobby Sweeting. “We had requests for ceramic bearings, and we wanted to use NSK bearings, which (now) only offer radial bearings. Our previous design angular contact bearings, so this redesign allowed us to maximize the lifespan and offer higher quality Japanese steel bearings. And now we can offer Kogel ceramic bearings as an upgrade. And both bearings have better seals, too.”

Sweeting said they couldn’t find any angular contact ceramic bearings that they were happy with. They weren’t happy with the seals, or the pricing, or availability for the sizes they need. So the best solution was a hub redesign that allowed them a better selection of bearings.

“When we started looking at the design, we found that using a plug system worked really well,” Sweeting said. “We looked at jam nut designs and others, but we wanted a simple design and one that had no axial or side loading on the bearing. The downside with other brands that used a plug system for the end caps was that many have low tolerances that were either too tight and difficult to remove for wheel service, or they were too loose and could flop around or fall out during wheel changes.”

They came up with a patent pending design that uses a male key way and adjuster ring to thread the axle together. Like before, a flanged design prevents the axle and end caps from being overtightened. They stop right at the edge of the bearing, so it’s completely sealed, but there’s no side load placed on the bearings.

The O-ring uses a 2mm 90-durometer rubber that’s very stiff, which keeps it firmly inside the axle. You hand thread the adjuster ring onto the axle (it threads onto the outside surface), then insert the end cap in so that the key/notch lineup and use two 5mm allen wrenches to snug things up. There’s no need to over tighten. To remove the end cap, you simply use the allen wrenches to unthread the axle, which pushes the end cap out. Or vice versa if you ever do develop any play. The driveside end cap is part of the one-piece axle.

They use ABEC 7, which is an extremely high precision rating for bearings. These changes are for the quick release, rim brake wheels only. The disc brake wheels will continue to use the original angular contact bearing design. That’s because this new design wouldn’t fit all of the different thru axle options, but it is something they’re looking at offering for disc brakes and thru axles in the future.

The hub shells are unchanged, so you could upgrade to the new axles if you want to upgrade the bearings. Just contact Alto Cycling directly through their website if you want that. Upgrade pricing $225 with the stainless steel NSK bearings. Complete wheelsets carry over the same price as before, there’s no increase with the new axle system, and those are available through your local bike shop. Kogel ceramic bearing upgrade is $200.

For both rim and disc brakes, all of their carbon rims are now tubeless compatible. The change comes after more than eight months of testing to fix two main issues they found with other carbon clinchers. One, it needed to be easy to mount a tire. They admit it’s a tiny bit harder to mount than a non-tubeless, but it shouldn’t be anything the average rider can’t manage at home.

The second was they wanted a tight seal to reduce the amount of air that slowly leaks out over time. The goal was to have tires that remained at about the desired pressure for at least four days after you pump them up, so you didn’t have to check and inflate before each ride. They accomplished this by fine tuning the rim profile. The new internal shape aids tire seating during initial setup, but then holds the bead tight enough to create a very solid seal.

Both the rim and disc brake versions use the same profiles, but the disc brake rims are about 40g lighter because they lack the basalt (stone, basically) brake track and extra material needed for rim braking. The disc models are available in the 40mm and 56mm depths only. For the most part, you can only get them as complete wheels, but they do sell hubs and rims separately to a few select custom builders in the U.S.

AltoCycling.com

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Andrew
Andrew
7 years ago

I must be missing something…it looks like the adjuster ring butts up against the bearing’s inner race when tightened to hold the wheel together, with the outer race held in place by the hub shell. So what prevents the user from overtightening the adjuster ring (using the end cap) and putting a huge side load on the bearing?

Tom
Tom
7 years ago
Reply to  Andrew

only way that happens is if the user puts so much side load into it that it distorts the hub shell and bearing bore. Which would be very difficult to do.

JBikes
JBikes
7 years ago
Reply to  Tom

I think it would be extremely beneficial if the cross-sectional showed the male key fit into the adjuster ring.
That said, this design does not prevent overloading the bearing. The cross-section clearly shows one can still tighten the adjuster ring well after the plug has bottomed out. It requires neither distortion of the hub shell or bearing bore. The bearings they are using are deep groove in design and it doesn’t take much axial force to overload them and reduce life.

The overall design is nice as it doesn’t rely on clamp load to preload the bearings, but it still relies on the operator to adjust them properly.

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  JBikes

You certainly could over-tighten the adjuster with your hand during assembly, if you really wanted to! It wouldn’t make much sense, but if you had some really strong fingers you certainly could do it! But ideally you’ll stop turning the adjuster once it hits the inner race of the bearing, and then install the plug. Once the plug is installed, it’s only possible to tighten the adjuster ring by using the 5mm allen keys. That is how you would easily remove axle slop, should any develop over time. But once the plug is installed it is impossible to introduce axial load to the bearings unless you purposefully do it with the allen keys.

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  JBikes

You can also see more assembly details here, in the top video! http://altocycling.com/pages/service-manual

JBikes
JBikes
7 years ago
Reply to  Bobby Sweeting

Thanks.
I think some of the confusion is the verbiage regarding reduction/elimination of preload due to axle compressive forces. Some may take that as the inability to overload the bearing at all.

My comment wasn’t meant to nitpick the design, which is nice.

Question – Deep groove radial bearing can take some thrust load…Do you care to comment on what percentage of rated load this design pushes them to? I know many run to angular contact (as your earlier design did), and I’d lean that way too, but having never calculated it out, it may not be needed for acceptable life.

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  JBikes

Great question, and I’m sorry for the confusion! Axial load and thrust load are the same thing, we’ve just chosen to use the term axial because I think it’s easier to understand the concept. In designs where axial load can be transferred to the inner race of the bearing, such as our previous design, it’s important to use angular contact bearings. The difficulty is in instructing mechanics on exactly how to set up the pre-load of the bearing, which can require a fairly fine touch to get absolutely perfect. When our previous design is set up properly it is flawless, but it can be tough to do.

This new design introduces zero axial loading while the bike is perfectly normal to the ground. The material compression of the axle due to skewer forces is completely negligible when compared to the gap in the thread fitment between the axle and the adjuster. The only time a small amount of axial loading would be placed on the bearings is when the bike is leaned over (i.e. corner, sprinting, etc). As you mentioned, deep groove ball bearings are able to handle this small amount of thrust, so it doesn’t effect the lifespan of the hub in any way.

I hope that answers your question! I can go over any of the specifics in more detail if you wish, just let me know!

Arthur
Arthur
7 years ago
Reply to  Bobby Sweeting

Axial load and thrust load are the same thing ?
I’m afraid that just sent your credibility crashing to zero.

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  Arthur

Yes, of course they are. Thrust (or axial) load is applied parallel to the bearing axis, and radial load perpendicular to it (from forces normal to the ground, usually). If you have questions regarding either, Google can explain them in more detail than I’m willing to write in a comment 🙂

Greg
Greg
7 years ago
Reply to  JBikes

I believe the preload is limited by the extremely smooth collar with no provision for tools. that said, once the end cap is in, you could still crank it down with two 5mm Allen wrenches, which would be a mistake.
I also fear that precession could screw it tighter (if I got my directions correct).
Personally, I’d go with a much steeper thread such as a quad helix of the same thread depth. Then your hands would have less leverage, reducing over preload potential. Chris King does this.

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  Greg

Great points, Greg! Testing the o-ring fitment and durometer was of utmost importance to ensure that it would not tighten down under normal riding conditions. We’re happy to say that it would not only be impossible to tighten down while riding, you likely wouldn’t be able to tighten it by hand if you tried. It’s an incredibly robust o-ring fit that keeps the system from rotating.

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago

Hey Andrew, I’d be happy to clarify! The adjuster ring is threaded onto the axle until it touches the inner race of the bearing. You could still over-tighten it by hand if you really wanted to, so it’s important to only thread it on until it touches the bearing and no further. Then, once the plug is installed, the the adjuster is constrained and unable to rotate. The plug bottoms out on the axle, so none of the skewer force is transferred to the bearing. The adjustability, serviceability, and performance of the design are definitely second to none! Please let me know if you have any other questions about it at all, I’d be happy to go into more detail! You can also see the installation video here: http://altocycling.com/pages/service-manual

Greg
Greg
7 years ago
Reply to  Bobby Sweeting

I respectfully disagree that the compression load of the QR doesn’t apply to the bearing. It is squeezing the ends of the axle, slightly shortening it over its length. This is from the right machined end to the left separate end cap, including the threaded section. It will load the bearing some.
Only way it wouldn’t is if the axle was constrained by one bearing on one side and the other side was allowed to find its own position on the axle, GXP bb style.

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  Greg

The 7075-T6 aluminum column can’t be compressed by any significant margin, especially by the skewer load. But even if it could, it would have to overcome the gap between the plug and the adjuster ring in order to axially load the bearing. There is a small tolerance between the male section of the plug and the female slot of the adjuster. It’s roughly 0.5mm. The axle would have to be compressed by this amount in order to load the axially load the bearings by any amount, which is absolutely impossible.

Greg
Greg
7 years ago
Reply to  Bobby Sweeting

the preload ring is pushing in from the threads on the axle, not from the end cap.
There is compression. This is not the first hub with 7000series axles and a preload collar. that threads on the axle and with a separate end cap that doesn’t touch the collar.
You may be accounting for this somewhere else, such as bearing clearance specs, but I don’t see it.

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  Greg

This would only occur if we made the assumption that the amount of compression was larger than the gap between the thread pitches for an h-class spec. There is a significantly larger tolerance in that thread class than what you would calculate in a buckling calculation on the axle. It’s not a tough calculation to show, and the tolerance on the threads is a known quantity. I’d be happy to send you the spreadsheet via email if you’re ever interested!

CG
CG
7 years ago
Reply to  Bobby Sweeting

publicly posting your email on a forum may not be the wisest idea….

Greg
Greg
7 years ago
Reply to  CG

It’s cool. It’s my crap inbox

TheKaiser
TheKaiser
7 years ago
Reply to  Greg

I don’t know man, maybe I am missing the same design detail that Greg is missing, but from my perspective the thread tolerance that Bobby mentioned will already be taken up by the preload, so there isn’t any remaining to accommodate the compression of the axle.

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  TheKaiser

There is no preload on the bearing, so the thread tolerance remains at neutral. And the compression of a column under the relatively small skewer force is so negligible, the amount of deflection pales in comparison to the thread tolerance.

Andrew
Andrew
7 years ago
Reply to  Bobby Sweeting

Bobby, thanks for the info! I’m just worried about the 200 pound gorillas out there who crank down on the allen keys. 😉 Best of luck in your endeavors, and good job with the outreach!

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  Andrew

Haha, yes, ideally anyone who is servicing the hubs will check out our instructional video first! Thanks Andrew, it’s always great to chat with people about our designs!

ApeEscape
ApeEscape
7 years ago

Those hubs may be decent, but I have never seen a rim fail more catastrophically then an Alto rim. The side, from rimhook to spoke hole, blew apart like someone hit it with a shotgun. Stay safe people, and don’t buy cheap carbon rims for rim braking.

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  ApeEscape

Are you referring to the incident at Levi’s gran fondo? I know that you are because it’s been our only rim failure! Also, it was due to the fact that the user installed the brake pads 2mm below the brake track, and it had gouged out the sidewall of the rim over a period of about 6 months. Of course the sidewall is not meant to withstand braking forces, and this caused the failure on a descent. Please feel free to call or email us any time if you are unsure of anything regarding our products, or would like more information regarding the quality of our composites engineering!

ApeEscape
ApeEscape
7 years ago
Reply to  Bobby Sweeting

Damn dude you are on it! That is exactly the one I was talking about! Kudos on the follow-up to that failure. Our industry needs more people as transparent as you. Keep it up!

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  ApeEscape

Thanks man, I really appreciate it! I can absolutely understand your assumption regarding the rim, because carbon clinchers have been an issue for a lot of brands in the past. But we stand firmly behind all of our design and manufacturing work, and do our best to clear up any misconceptions that may exist!

Tim
Tim
7 years ago
Reply to  Bobby Sweeting

I have no affiliation with Alto- just wanted to say, it’s great to see a company respond so thoroughly, promptly, and politely to people’s questions.

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  Tim

Thank you, Tim! Having a great product is only half the battle in a crowded wheel market. We do everything we can to have the best customer service around, including chatting with people on BikeRumor!

Juris Zeltiņš (@ViltusVilks)

Too expensive for declared weight.

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago

Hey Juris, you’re right that we aren’t the lightest wheel set in the world! The improved energy transfer from the R-Symmetric design vastly outweighed the weight savings that we saw with other design options when it comes to pure wattage on the bike. It’s similar to going from a narrow rim to a wide rim with a 25mm wide brake track (which nearly every brand now uses, of course). The benefit of the design isn’t in how many grams you save, but the other ways in which it will make you faster!

Darryl
Darryl
7 years ago

Doesn’t achieve anything existing Mavic or Zipp hubs don’t achieve.
Less actually, because you can adjust Mavic and Zipp preload without taking the wheel off.

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  Darryl

There are other plug and collar systems that exist, no doubt about it. We designed a plug that has a more tightly toleranced fit than anyone else in the world, while still being able to easily adjust or remove it. It’s this self extraction feature that we’ve been able to patent, and what we believe is better about the design.

Kogel Bearings
7 years ago

Good stuff, guys! Excited to work with you.

Horrace
Horrace
7 years ago

There’s some pretty interesting stuff if you do a google search for “86mm clincher tubeless”, or “56mm clincher tubeless”, or “40mm clincher tubeless”.

ICAN not believe what I saw.

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  Horrace

Our rims are clearly a different profile and finish to ICAN. My background in composites engineering leaves us no reason not to design and manufacture our own rims. They are made at Topkey, in Taichung. You are welcome to call them any time to confirm! They also do not offer open mold production, so we have no worry when it comes to competitors trying to use our molds.

Pete
Pete
7 years ago

Are these better than Gokiso then?

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  Pete

I honestly haven’t done enough research on their hubs to give you an informed comparison! But with the design and testing process that we go through, I’d definitely feel confident in comparing our rims and hubs with anyone in the industry!

kavitatorkavi
7 years ago

Better in what? Nice design and good to see some new stuffs!

TomM
TomM
7 years ago

First of all, this is one of the best comment threads on BR in a long time: Informative and civilized.

Bobby, a question about your basalt braking track…is that unique in the industry? Do you have data about your braking performance that you could share? Asking because I have wondered for a few years why someone hasn’t applied that kind of abrasive surface coating to a carbon brake track. I eventually concluded that it must have been tried, but likely failed for reasons unknown to me.

TheKaiser
TheKaiser
7 years ago
Reply to  TomM

@TomM, I can’t give you any detail on performance metrics, but I can tell you that if you look around a bit you will find that most of the big cheap Chinese carbon rim sellers offer the option of a basalt brake track on some models. It seems like a good idea to me, however I have seen some pics of some that have worn through or flaked off prematurely. I’ve wondered the same thing about the performance of basalt, as you don’t see any of the big US or Euro brands going that route. They seem to gravitate more toward a textured/machined carbon brake track.

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  TheKaiser

Kaiser, all carbon brake tracks are post machined regardless of whether they incorporate basalt or not. That’s part of the process. We prototyped a few rims with a textured track but didn’t like how quickly it wore through the pads. The increased surface hardness and smooth track gave us all the braking power we needed, without forcing you to buy $50 carbon pads every month. I really do think it’s the best balance between power, modulation, and durability.

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  TomM

Good question, Tom. I’ve always like basalt in our brake tracks because it increases the surface hardness significantly. That’s the main benefit – better braking power. The durability of the rim under heat is still 100% dependent upon the resin glass temperature, which isn’t effected whether you use basalt or not. Unfortunately we aren’t the first to use basalt (or other stone material) in our brake tracks, that technology has been around for a while.

Darin
Darin
7 years ago

I would not trust this company after they blatantly lied to a customer about using the Pacenti rim and calling it their own design.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/pacenti-alloy-rim-open-mold-354352.html

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  Darin

Darin, your consistent trolling around the internet is truly exhausting! As I’ve told you before, we previously sourced our alloy rims from Sun factory, which I believe made the Pacenti rims as well. We had a few QC issues with them and have since started working with Velocity’s factory in Michigan. We’re now doing a custom drilling and shot peening process on their rims in order to build them around our hub geometry and gain even better fatigue strength. Our design and manufacturing process are fairly straight forward.

kavitec
7 years ago

Hubs are Altos design — big flange on DS is pnly good (bad thing is higher weight) How will radial spokes and high tension effect on rims?

Bobby Sweeting
7 years ago
Reply to  kavitec

We certainly get that question at lot, and I’m happy to go over why we run a radial/2-cross pattern on the rear wheel. The benefit, in a nut shell, is that it gives us better tension balance between the drive and non-drive sides, creating a stiffer system laterally by roughly 7% and torsionally by 2%.

The downside, of course, is that it pulls through less material and can create stress risers. This is why other brands have had issues with this pattern in the past. However, we found that the issue was necessarily the amount of material, but how it was acting on it. If the flange was normal to the torque tube, the spoke was putting a huge bending moment on it and was causing the flange to crack. But if we tilted the flange inward by 4 degrees, to be directly in line with the spoke, we completely removed this bending moment. This improved the fatigue strength of the material significantly, and reduces the risk of failure to below what you’d see on any of flange with a 2x or 3x pattern.

It’s also important to note that “high tension” isn’t require on our wheels. They’re built to 120kgf on the drive side and 75-80kgf on the non-drive side, depending on the dish. Some companies will increase the tension on the drive side to 140kgf simply so that they can achieve higher tension on the non-drive spokes, but this is because of faulty hub geometry. With the R-Symmetric geometry we don’t need to use super high spoke tension, and a higher tension will not gain you anything regarding ride quality or stiffness.

I hope that helps! Let me know if you have any other questions at all.

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